Australian Fair Food Forum

Veg Box Admin Software

PS
At present we run a set weekly box system with seasonable produce, similar to a CSA where you take what you get of what is in season and what is available to us. Citrus is abundant at present so if a member grew their own oranges they wouldn’t be wanting more of them in the FIG box! We allow up to two swaps, giving a dollar value to the oranges etc and then they may choose something else from our extras table to that value.

We also have what we call special dietary prepacks; these are for people with health challenges, on personalised healing regimes, that require quite some rejigging to the normal boxes and we have a specific volunteer pack their boxes separately. Would your system enable us to automate their requirements, I wonder? All done manually at present. Just a thought!

Hi Maree

Thanks for the update and passing my details on, I actually talked to Marc last year about what you are doing at FIG :slight_smile:

There are so many different software systems available these days that it seems hard to know where to start to do any sort of comparison. Sticking to what you know and feel comfortable with seems like a good idea though.

I should mention though that lettuceshare has had bank statement uploads since it began, and I added Xero integration at the beginning of this year.

thanks,
Malcolm

Hello,

I’m the FIG IT guy that Maree mentioned above :slight_smile:
My expertise is in the Wordpress environment.

We have an unusual situation because FIG has a weekly box scheme, as well as retail.
I haven’t found an affordable system that can manage both.
For boxes, we need an online store with recurring orders.
For retail, we need an efficient POS system (not simply an online store used as a POS, as this is this slow to operate).

I’ve recently trialled Shopify (online store) with Vend (POS) and that didn’t work well. Since I was using trial accounts, I ran out of time to reach out to technical support.
Also, for recurring orders in Shopify, you need a 3rd party addon and I was not too impressed by the limited features of these addons.

I’ve also trialled WooCommerce (online store) which works well for recurring orders, memberships, packing lists, etc. But there’s only a limited integration with Xero and no good integration with Vend (POS). If we changed our POS system, I would try WooCommerce again.

Cheers
Jean

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Graham, you mentioned that your online store would be Shopify. Is it where your custom development is taking place ?

Malcom, would lettuceshare run on another CMS like Wordpress ?

Thanks
Jean

Hi Jean

lettuceshare is a set of modules built on top of a CMS I’ve written so no, it couldn’t run on Wordpress as it is very much linked to the underlying system.

thanks,
Malcolm

Hi Malcolm - would love to see what you’re building - my skype is gcullen72 and I’m around most Tuesdays and Wednesdays

Thanks for the reply Maree - there’s alot in this so I would be happy to chat over the phone at some time. For the sake of the forum, I’ll try to go through our experiences with what youve raised:

Bucky Box - I like it - we looked at it in the early days when it was starting and was part of their beta, and then again more recently after they changed their pricing model to make it more reasonable. The main reasons we decided against going with it were

  • we wanted to use our own front end store and had an existing website
  • we already had xero payments integrated for simple payment reconciliation
  • it didnt output packing sheets in a way that avoided spreadsheets and manual admin - this was the most crucial because we allow substituitions in the boxes and doing it manually and in spreadsheets was a pain
  • future proofing: I saw alot of nimble applications in invoicing, payments, deliveyr routing, ecomm storefronts etc coming out, with inbuilt APi and the Zapier tool that linked them together so we decided the go with best of breed applications that already existed and then just focus on building what we couldnt find, and build it in a way that it would link to these applications in future

Store POS

  • this is a major pain for us - we looked at Vend and Shopify POS (which is pretty much Vend lite)
  • have settled with Kounta but not yet implemented
  • upshot, I would rely on any of these for controlling your stock and linking your stock from your online store
  • you will need another application such as Shipstation, TradeGecko to handle (Kounta wil recommend one)
  • we handle this by updating the stock between our retail store and our online store manually twice a week
  • we’re not that big to need just-in-time inventory numbers

One of the features in the next development phase is “auto-suggested swaps” using simple logic and tags. for example, customer asks for “no parsnip”, system looks for other items tagged “veg”, “heavy”, “root” that are not already in the box or on the customers “no list” and suggests this addition to our admin person for a swap (eg. in this case it might be “turnip”)

Is this what you mean?

Yes, I actually emplyed someone to research and interview a bunch of solutions to see if there was something we could take off the shelf or customise. We looked at TradeGecko, ERP systems, Bucky Box, cin7 and OpenERP.

They all came close but required customisation that was just as costly as building something from scratch.

The solution for managing boxes is similar to a large scale manufacturing erp system, but those erp systems have a heap of irrelevant functionality for what we needed.

Yes, we are building an API interface to take orders from Shopify and populate our Boxpackr system, and sync the prodcuts also.

Shopify has apps to sync with Xero, and can handle paypal and stripe payments.

We will be integrating with Routific to handle our delivery runs - we do at the moment, by uploading a csv file from the Boxpackr system.

great how does tomorrow about 9am sound?

I’ll message you Malcolm

Hi Graham,

What is Boxpackr ?
Thanks for sharing all this information.

Jean

Hi all,

Thought I’d weigh in, because we’ve struggled with almost every single one of the issues raised here over the years. Just for clarity: I work for both the Baw Baw Food Hub (as warehouse manager), and also for the Open Food Network (as web developer). I am writing this with my food hub hat on, but with an obvious bias for the solutions offered by the OFN. :slight_smile:

I think designing with interoperability between platforms/solutions in mind is vitally important, so that users can take the parts they need and make them fit together in a way that works for them. I think Graham’s approach of integrating with other platforms via APIs or dedicated reports is the right one, and I would encourage all of us who are developing solutions to keep these kinds of discussions going - I think they are really valuable.

Where I’m coming from

The Baw Baw Food Hub runs a subscription-based weekly veggie box program and retail space, currently servicing about 160 households per week, which we run out of a warehouse in Warragul, Gippsland. We offer delivery, but this is only taken up by about 5% of our customer base, despite being offered below cost. The vast majority of customers come to the hub to collect their orders and purchase other products - we think mostly because they like the community and social aspects of it!

Online Store

We accept online orders for “casual” (non-subscription) boxes, as well as for “extras”: a wide range of locally produced foods, from fruit, spreads, breads, dairy products, meat, dry-goods and prepared meals. These are received via the Open Food Network, which collates our orders and has a range of reports which we use to print out order labels (via a spreadsheet which formats the report).

The OFN offers a range of options for restricting who can access a given store. Stores can be completely open, or can set up a white-list of customers who are able to purchase from the store. In the latter case, store managers can opt to allow the general public to see which products are available, but only allow purchases to be made by approved customers, or alternatively they can just make the store completely inaccessible to anyone who isn’t approved. At the food hub our store is open, so we accept orders from anyone.

At the moment, we redirect users to the Open Food Network store from our own website, and we have very few problems with this. It would be nice to have more of our own branding and to remove the dislocation of moving the customer to another site, but this is not a high priority for Baw Baw at present. It is for others in the OFN community though, and the UK team have almost finished work on a first cut of ‘embeddable shopfronts’, enabling stores to embed their shopfront operations via an iframe in their own website. This means customers place their orders ‘through’ OFN without ever leaving the Hub’s website. We anticipate that this will be available in Aus in the next few weeks.

Subscriptions

At present, we receive new subscription requests via our website (which I built as a bespoke solution for us, so unlikely to be of use to others), and are managed via another spreadsheet.

That said, I have spent the better part of the last year working on a new subscriptions feature for the Open Food Network, which will provide an extremely flexible and reasonably sophisticated system for handling a range of subscription models, fully integrated into the existing inventory management and e-commerce elements of the OFN platform. Editing (in bulk or individually), cancelling and pausing of orders is definitely something it will be able to handle. It is built around the OFN’s “Order Cycles” system, which means that frequency can literally be anything you like (weekly, fortnightly, third Tuesday of every second month, etc). It has also been the primary impetus for the integration of Stripe payments into the OFN, in order to allow for automated payment processing of subscription-based orders. The first iteration of this feature is focussed on subscriptions that are created by the shop owner rather than the customer, but customer-created subscriptions will follow.

There has been talk of developing ‘customer wallets’ as a payment option within OFN, so people could top up and draw down credit, but we are going to see how many people actually still need that once there is a good ‘on demand’ credit card processing system in place. The OFN already supports Paypal, Pin Payments, eft and cash - but no bank reconciliation (and it hasn’t actually really come up, not sure why).

At the food hub, we anticipate retiring our existing subscriptions spreadsheet and migrating entirely onto the OFN platform as soon as possible.

POS

The only other feature required by us before we can migrate our subscriptions across is a “point of sale” interface, capable of creating/loading, adjusting and processing orders as quickly as possible. I too have played around with countless options for point of sale platforms, including Vend, Kounta, Odoo and Shopify. None of which really met our requirements. Our main desire is for a system that can be used for both adjustment/processing of online orders and the creating of ad-hoc orders for walk-in retail customers in a single interface, and preferably with a single inventory management system.

Since we made the decision to use the Open Food Network platform to handle our subscriptions, I have also been focussing energy on the development of a “point of sale” system for the OFN. I use quotation marks because the initial cut is very unlikely to include any hardware integration (scales, thermal printers), which some may consider integral components of a true POS. It will be focussed on quickly loading orders, making adjustments, making notes, and processing payments. I would be very interested in any input with regard to the requirements others have for point of sale.

Customisations

From my perspective, one of the fundamental decisions that contributes to the workability of our particular model is the way we handle customisations (basically, we don’t). All boxes are packed as standard (in three sizes) and any customisations are performed by the customer using our “swap table”: a table at the hub that everyone can swap produce into and out of, using a value-based guide describing what constitutes a fair swap. We find this works very well, even for those with intolerances, or those who have productive home gardens over summer. I recognise that this is not a viable solution for others, but I thought it was worth describing where we are coming from, and why our requirements are the way they are.

Box planning

We plan our boxes using a spreadsheet that we developed ourselves. Given that there is no requirement to take customisations into account, I imagine this is very simple compared to what a lot of you are using/developing. It works extremely well for us however, and incorporates our wholesale and ad-hoc orders as well. It also generates a packing sheet for our three box sizes.

‘Box planning’ / ‘box building’ is on the OFN wishlist and there is some community discussion (including links to some other open source CSA software projects) here - but it is not imminent. It may increase in priority once we have launched the subscription features and therefore have more ‘csa-like’ users.

Accounting

OFN does integrate with Xero (via specific report designed for easy upload) but we don’t use this at the hub.

Wasn’t sure how much would be the right level of detail in this response, apologies if too much and if too little perhaps check out the OFN feature list and/or user guide.

Rob

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Thank you, Rob, for all this information.
It’s good to see that OFN will manage subscriptions soon.
The customer “wallet” is an important feature for FIG. A lot of our members pay on account at the co-op.

Jean

Great info - thanks for that

Boxpackr is just the name we use for the system we use to manage our box orders

Hi Graham,

Apologies for the delay in replying. Moving house and packing up a farm meant I missed some things unfortunately, however I did notice the fellow I mentioned, Jean, has been here chatting away.

I think I’ll leave it up to him now, as he (bless him!) is doing the setting up and testing, and I’m the person who comes in and tests the end result, with a “that part’s great” or “it doesn’t include the XYZ feature we really need” or “can it provide ABC?” and “does it integrate with …”, for example. :slight_smile:

In the meantime, we continue to use a mishmash of systems which do give us the end result, in a fashion, but with a lot of time and effort on my part to bring it all together. No wonder no-one else wants my job!!

Maree

foodgarden wrote:
“One of the features in the next development phase is “auto-suggested swaps” using simple logic and tags. for example, customer asks for “no parsnip”, system looks for other items tagged “veg”, “heavy”, “root” that are not already in the box or on the customers “no list” and suggests this addition to our admin person for a swap (eg. in this case it might be “turnip”)
Is this what you mean?”

That may work for our special dietary boxes, the members on specific healing regimes who can have, for example, this list of 15 items and nothing from the other list of 45 items of produce. At present we manage this manually; we email them the day before, let them know what is in the boxes and they email or text back saying what they can/cannot have and what they would like instead, or what they could take more of.

For everyone else, with their “up to two swaps”, I guess what we do is closest to a swap table as someone above mentioned. Except our swap table is about ten tables of additional produce from which to choose something of the same monetary value as the items not wanted in the bag/box.

Thank you, and to everyone here, for their contributions. It has been really helpful, and encouraging to know others are working on similar issues or working at providing solutions.

Maree

@elbowandchin :arrow_up::arrow_up::arrow_up: